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Tech and Mods

  Understanding lnb specifications, Page Two [15 November 2002]

Group Delay Variation

Group delay refers to the time shift experienced by signals of differing frequencies. If high frequency signal components were delayed by significant amounts of time compared with low frequency signal components, then the demodulator in your receiver is going to have a hard time.

It's hard to think of a good analogy to this, perhaps this one will do.

Imagine a set of traffic lights at a road junction, but the speed of propagation of the light is dependent on the light's colour. Imagine that the speed of propagation of the green light is normal, but the red light is only propagated at a speed of one metre per second.

Sitting in your car at the lights you would see the green light go off, but the illumination from the red light would take a few seconds to reach you, so you would see no light at all for a few seconds.

After a while the red light would arrive and all seem to be well again.

But then, when the red light goes off and the red green light comes on, you would see both lights at once for a while - until all of the red light still on its way to you had passed you by.

Pedestrians and car drivers, trying to demodulate the on/off digital signals from the traffic lights, would quite often get it all wrong - there would certainly be a lot of accidents at the junction!

But reduce the difference in light's propagation speeds, or the group delay, and the number of accidents will reduce too.

I have never seen a lnb spec that even mentions group delay. If the gain flatness criterion is met, we can but hope that the group delay one will be met too. 

Multi-carrier intermodulation ratio

Earlier I said that it was possible that a big dish looking at a high power cluster of satellites like Hotbird or Astra1 could cause the receiver to be overloaded with signals. One effect of this overload would be for the transponders to interfere with each other inside the lnb's amplifier, resulting in signals that weren't in the original broadcasts magically appearing at the lnb output as distortion products. This would be fine if there was no legitimate signals at the point where the interference pops up, because you could just ignore these 'ghost signals'. But this isn't going to happen on a cluster like Hotbird, as there is going to be a legitimate signal on every frequency in the KU band.  If these spurious signals are too large then they are going to severely spoil your fun. The Eutelsat specification recommends that such signals should be at least 35dB down when compared with the wanted signals.

Once again, I have never seen a lnb specification that quotes this parameter. Some lnb specifications do mention such things as the 'third order intercept point' or the '1 dB gain compression point', which at least shows that the manufacturer has considered the problems of handling high power signals. If you see such details in the specification then high numbers are good to see, look for a third order intercept point of about 15 dBm, or a 1dB gain compression point of about 5 dBm.

If these values are not quoted, then this criterion has a better chance of being met in a lower gain lnb. Yet another reason not to look for a super high gain lnb.

Local Oscillator intermodulation products

There is another source of interfering signals built right into the lnb itself - the local oscillator. Using a properly balanced mixer, unwanted intermodulation products should be at least 60dB down. There is, of course a wanted intermodulation product too, that’s the frequency-translated signal fed out to the coaxial output connector!

Local oscillator phase noise

Fact: digital satellite signals are phase modulated.

What a lnb should do is frequency shift the incoming signals down to the IF output frequency and amplify them without altering the vital phase modulation in the signal.

The worst thing your lnb could possibly do is to add further phase modulation to the signals.  It doesn’t matter how big your dish is, or how' quiet' your lnb is if you let the local oscillator in the lnb wantonly add its own phase modulation and 'scribble' over your precious signals. 

The phase noise values suggested by Eutelsat here are the recommended phase noise levels for wideband MCPC (multi-channel per carrier) signals. If you are looking for SCPC (single channel per carrier) or other narrow bandwidth signals, then you will be better off looking for a specification that is better than that shown.

It is remarkable how few lnb manufacturers mention phase noise. Some, not very helpfully, say that it is low. Phase noise is one of the most important parameters by which we can judge a digital lnb.

By comparison, the Eutelsat spec makes no mention of the noise factor of the lnb, held to be so important by advertisers, dealers, magazines, and the man in the pub! 

Hopefully a low-noise lnb will probably have a low phase noise too. But a low noise factor lnb, by itself, is no guarantee of good reception. Indeed, there comes a point where the further reduction of white noise within the lnb is pointless, because the noise picked up by the antenna and feedhorn will be many times more significant than the noise contribution of the lnb.

Its time for another analogy!

Imagine that you have slight hearing problems and have to wear a hearing aid, it's a good hearing aid but it makes a hissing noise in your ear. Despite this, it is good enough to understand people talking up to 20 metres away from you in a quiet room.

One day you go to a bar with friends, there are a lot of other people talking, laughing, and there is music playing too. You find it hard to understand your friends under these environmental conditions, so you buy a more expensive less hissy, hearing aid and can now understand people 100 metres away in the quiet room. But in the bar you still can't understand your friend's conversations.

This is hardly surprising, as the noise in the bar is much greater than the hiss made by the hearing aid.

You later notice that your friends are also having trouble hearing each other and occasionally resort to cupping their hand behind their ear to hear better. They are making their ears more effective by making their hearing more directional and sensitive.

The moral of this tale is that a bigger, more directional antenna is often a better solution than a quieter lnb!


Microwave noise figures are a notoriously difficult thing to measure, because there is no such thing as a noise figure meter to measure them with. All noise factor measurements are inferred from running an experiment, which attempts to distinguish between internally generated noise and noise naturally present in the testing environment and the measuring instruments. When people start worrying about fractions of a dB it is time to start querying how these measurements are made and how repeatable the test results are.

Spurious components at LNB output

Just in case we haven't covered all the possible sources of interfering signals, there's another catch-all category - simply labelled spurious components. Once again, the bigger the negative number the better things will be.

LNB isolation

This parameter applies to multiple lnb set-ups, including monoblock lnbs, and specifies the maximum amount of signal that should leak through from one lnb to the other. The value shown in the specification seems a very low target to aim for compared with some of the other specifications here.  Serious hobbyists, looking for the ultimate in reception ability, will probably not be using such a set-up anyway.

The other stuff

This specifies the connectors, voltages currents and interfaces to the outside world - it also, not unsurprisingly, incorporates a further recommendation of the DiSeQc standards.

The only mysterious feature here is the lnb output return loss. This loss should be as high as possible, and is a measurement of by how much spurious signals coming up the lnb coaxial cable and re-entering the lnb are reduced before re-emerging from the socket. These signals can originate from the receiver and/or from signal reflections caused by discontinuities in the coaxial cable run. These rogue signals can cause no end of bother and can even be responsible for the mysterious inability to receive certain transponders from a satellite. A high return loss will help reduce the level of these unwanted signals.

 

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